I think you’re absolutely right. Credit cards have their place in a financially fit person’s financial plan. We use them regularly for cash back, but we can handle it like you can, and we know it. I think anyone following Dave Ramsey’s Baby Steps that is capable of handling it will draw the same conclusion. Great discussion!

Is it *always* foolish to marry someone with no W-2 income? No. I didn’t say it always was. But willingly being involved with someone who is knowingly breaking the law — getting paid under the table to avoid income tax IS illegal, remember? — is a bad decision. There’s a thing called paying taxes. If your husband is unethical enough to not pay taxes on his earned wages, that tells a lot about his character. I would call that a poor decision that came back to bite her. Shocker.

Is it wrong to marry someone with no clear financial plan? Interesting, because I never said it was wrong. I said it was a poor decision (there’s a difference) — because it is! Ignorance is not bliss, as she is learning. I know 70% of all Americans are living paycheck to paycheck — having no financial plan — but that’s not an excuse to put up with it.

With your third point you are implying that this lady doesn’t earn $70k per year at age 21… so I can only assume she had 4 kids by age 21? Yea, I would call that a potentially poor decision… one that was compounded by the other choices described above. It’s a high risk choice. And who said you need $70k to survive?

Is it lazy to be a stay-at-home mother? Hmmm… again, please read, because I never said it was lazy. You’re just making assumptions on how I feel about this situation because I’m being blunt about someone you care about. You are ignoring what I’m actually saying. I have nothing but respect for stay at home mothers — and working mothers, too. Having 4 kids running around must be insane. I respect that. But intentionally staying at home, out of the work force, with an unethical, paid under the table husband… is risky. And it didn’t work out. Shocker.

What you see as micro-engineering your life, financially savvy folks see as risk aversion and preparation. You can’t prevent things you listed, but you can financially prepare for them.

How? In order:
-cancer: emergency fund, health insurance, disability insurance
-mental illness: power of attorney, emergency fund, health insurance, disability insurance
-car accidents: car insurance, health insurance, emergency fund
-death: life insurance, power of attorney, emergency fund
-abandonment: up to date skills, solid understanding of the family’s finances and locations of money (yes, this is the most difficult one to prepare for)
-sudden reversals… (of fortune?): emergency fund
-company closure: emergency fund, not living paycheck to paycheck

Yes, I hope none of those things happen to me. But, if they do, I have financial protections in place to help soften the blow.

Thanks for calling “people” (me) hard-hearted and rich. I might call “people” (you) ignorant and unprepared.

• So is it always foolish to marry someone with no W-2 income? No, a lot of very successful people have no W-2 income.
• Is it wrong to marry someone with no clear financial plan? No, of course not, not all people are into planning–no crime there.
• What if you didn’t have skills that would give you a $70K/yr income the day you turned 21? Are you a loser? Nope.
• Is it lazy to be a stay-at-home mother and have 4 children? No, it shows faith and hope in the future. It is the ultimate in entrepreneurship.

You cannot always micro-engineer your life. Cancer, mental illness, car accidents, death, abandonment, sudden reversals, company closure, etc., happen everyday.

Let’s hope none of these things happen to you. People who are hard-hearted when rich are often abandoned by their so-called friends when they aren’t.

And again, what happens when someone wipes out your bank account the day your mortgage is due?

With a credit card it isn’t even your money that’s been stolen. It’s your credit limit — the credit card company’s money. On top of that you have a 30 day window before your bill is due. You file a dispute and don’t have to worry about anything.

So yes, some of the protections can be the same, just with more inconvenience.

Speaking of having the same benefits… how many debit cards provide cash back and travel rewards like credit cards?

Likewise you can stupidly spend your money to put yourself into such a situation where you can be wiped out. I’m not at all saying that was your friend’s situation… that’s just tough.

But one might argue that being married to someone with no W2 income might be a bad decision. Or not having a financial plan in place might be a bad decision. Or staying out of the workforce to the point that you only have minimum wage skills is a bad decision. .. which might be a reflection of the decision to have 4 kids.

It’s a whole line of decisions that get you to a point. Of course those decisions were likely made in trust of her husband, so being betrayed can obviously mess up the plan. Bad things happen, yes, I totally agree. Even if she had thousands saved up in the bank all it takes is her husband leaving and emptying the accounts.

Also, I would say people in that type of situation are in the minority of the group of people in debt/not wealthy. A majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck… they spend their money on TVs, cable, alcohol, eating out, car payments, financing their furniture… you name it. A majority of people haven’t had some major calamity in their lives aside from their own decision making.

Just my two cents.